I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby janick on Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:14 am

incarna wrote:One of the admins please change Kyodan's avatar I do not want Count Duckula sullied by association :(

Seconded. And if it's Danger Mouse, I will hack his account myself.
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Sara|Work: rayfe uses nigger too much

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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby Avrii on Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:03 am

At least it was an awesome thread :D
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<Overlord_45> look i can pay enough attention to the characters to recognize that it's really fucking funny for certain characters to take the actions that they've chosen to take in this game and also want to replace my eyes with my testicles to see if the Nadugan will awaken the power to truly purge my memory of ever watching this
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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby Rayfe on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:47 am

Kyodan wrote: Ah well. Back to Street Fighter IV.


you're probably ass at that game too.

you know there's no GMs there to cry to when you get beat online?
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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby Destron on Thu Mar 19, 2009 10:19 am

Kyodan post ur gamertag so I can challenge and beat your ass w/ Sakura/Cammy.
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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby george on Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:09 pm

PLEASE EDUCATE ME ABOUT EMPATH PVP

my empath is actually starting to get solid, and I feel like i should do more with him. he has great magic, great perception (from juggling items till cap then foraging like a madman...i get perception to muddled from foraging), mediocre stealth/defenses. currently he's training defenses.

- NB is SvS, right?
- What determines how long it lasts? just how much you win SvS contest by?
- Brawling, defenses....SvS stats...what else does an empath train to be good at PvP? Brawling? Perception?
- You can HL multiple people then NB them all...does this make it harder?
- What determines if you sleep yourself? PM? My empath has over 1,000 PM, does this do anything for him?
- why cast lethargy? just to draing their fatigue to make them easier to hit?
- what determines your avengers stats again? i remember people posting circle+reflex+agil or some shit?
- what else should i know for empath PvP?

THANK YOU!
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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby Avrii on Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:16 pm

NB doesn't scale

At ~250 you can cast it without sleeping yourself as long as you don't have nerve damage and you wait for pretty much the entirety of the cast. According to Calg whose empath has around 900 PM he still waits full prep, it's never snapcastable. Keep in mind that this gives your opponent around 30 seconds to get away from you or rape your face while you're waiting, in addition to the cast of heart link before it. Multiple heart links don't SEEM to have any effect on making it harder but I haven't tested it to find out, I'm beyond that point tbqh.

NB is broken as fuck right now

Changes to the unconscious state have rendered the spell pretty worthless. It's unpredictable and horrible to rely on. >circle breaks NB quite easily, a minor paper cut will suddenly have your opponent jump up and punch you in the face, etc. The beautiful thing about this is it's also buggy as all shit so Vannir has actually had messaging like it's a sleeper box that tells him to type WAKE to wake up but even more annoying is dropping someone only to have them get a glancing hit on them and wake up so you recast NB and it tells you you can't do that because your opponent is already sleeping. This is AWESOME.

Raise Power can be a useful tool against a caster that's too dumb to have avoids up, make sure you have a huge refresh on yourself first. >join so and so >cast

Lethargy supposedly gives a penalty equal to malediction, empath guardians also scale like shit so this helps them be more effective but realistically they're still going to suck and you're going to outgrow them quickly. They're based on circle/charisma (Calg did some testing and came up with circle*2 + charisma so 399 cap) so you've already probably surpassed the ability of your avenger. Avengers are also weak against ranged/magic/backstab and if they die can't be resummoned for a couple minutes.

Train shield

Oh, and I stack reflex/disc/charisma and train the shit out of defenses and brawling (non damaging brawling moves are also beautifully broken).
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<Overlord_45> look i can pay enough attention to the characters to recognize that it's really fucking funny for certain characters to take the actions that they've chosen to take in this game and also want to replace my eyes with my testicles to see if the Nadugan will awaken the power to truly purge my memory of ever watching this
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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby fourvahl on Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:21 pm

MongooseDog wrote:What the fuck, did someone sprinkle lunatic food in a little trail leading to SC recently?


:lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby AJizzle on Thu Mar 19, 2009 1:23 pm

What Avrii said, and yes, NB is some horribly mutated version of SvS. The contest is amazingly skewed in favor of the caster because it's a "helpful" spell.
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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby Copernicus on Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:22 pm

Avrii wrote:NB doesn't scale

At ~250 you can cast it without sleeping yourself as long as you don't have nerve damage and you wait for pretty much the entirety of the cast. According to Calg whose empath has around 900 PM he still waits full prep, it's never snapcastable.


There are other spells like that. I don't see the point because they devalue the PM skill, but Armifer won't budge on the concept.
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Re: I'm the reason DR is dying (long)

Postby Deliverator on Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:10 pm

george wrote:PLEASE EDUCATE ME ABOUT EMPATH PVP
- NB is SvS, right?
- What determines how long it lasts? just how much you win SvS contest by?
- Brawling, defenses....SvS stats...what else does an empath train to be good at PvP? Brawling? Perception?
- You can HL multiple people then NB them all...does this make it harder?
- What determines if you sleep yourself? PM? My empath has over 1,000 PM, does this do anything for him?
- why cast lethargy? just to draing their fatigue to make them easier to hit?
- what determines your avengers stats again? i remember people posting circle+reflex+agil or some shit?
- what else should i know for empath PvP?


Arwinia has covered almost all of it.

I can add:

NB'ing multiple people shortens the duration. From time to time I NB as many people as I can HL in the Empath guild, which results in unconsciousness of under 20 seconds probably. (For 6-8+ people.)

Awaken slightly changes the dynamic of NB -- it's true you can't snap NB, but you can cast a big awaken on yourself, snap NB, sleep yourself and your victim, and then (hopefully) your awaken will pulse and wake you up before your victim wakes up. I've seen some Empaths do this and wake up pretty much instantly. It seems to weaken the NB though. For instance, when testing this at ~40th circle, I found that a snapped NB couldn't sleep a 55th Thief, when a full prep one could. Awaken also works vs. the shock stun, if you ever have to go that route.

Empath PvP is annoying. Avengers are so weak and lame that they're only good for killing people of Kyodan-level ineptness. The key is to take the fight to, or near a hunting area, sleep the person, then drag them into a hunting area. That or just jump them while they're hunting.

For normal PvP, I usually lead with a Raise Power (poor man's hulp), then HL and NB while the person attempts to attack and collapses from fatigue (fatigue loss often results in critical backstab failure, too), or backfires spells, or whatever. I try to keep powders of both varieties on hand if the person tries to hide (my perc is underwhelming). I'm going to have to start keeping sigils too, now, since RF auto reforms. If I have a chance I'll lethargy them too, after dragging them to the hunting area or siccing the avenger.

Empaths need the same skills for PvP as everyone else. You need lots and lots of defense to buy yourself time while you wait to prep NB. Usually people will underestimate your defenses and attack you with a low weapon, or snapcast a spell or something. Brawling is actually not that useful unless you outclass the person, at least until the maneuver rewrite, but it's so easy to train (and will be handy post-shock-rewrite) that it seems sort of silly not to. Kyodan was actually able to hit me with AE while I was grappled to him, which I don't think could have happened otherwise. So it's a risk, but if I hadn't grappled him he would have jumped up and run away as soon as possible. So eh.
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